Hazel sits down with climber, philosopher, and author Francis Sanzaro for a deep dive on the ego—what it is, how it shows up in climbing and life, and how Zen philosophy offers tools to loosen its grip. From ambition, status, and self-worth to the joy (and traps) of goal-setting, Francis draws on decades of climbing experience and insights from Zen and philosophy. Along the way, they explore how the ego shapes who we are and what it means to have a mind that’s truly free.
Listen to the full episode here:
